Company takes 6 PTO days away from employee for taking too many days off in 2023, despite the company not having PTO in 2023: 'Is this LEGAL???'

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Emmy Pratt • Senior Editor
Mar 18, 2024 6:00 PM EDT

PTO is a sacred thing. Companies usually give as little of it as they can, but once they give it, they seldom can take it away without a great deal of pushback. Some companies can take their employee's PTO away retroactively, having it expire if they haven't used it in a timely manner. 

It might be hard to believe, but some companies don't have any paid time off for their employees at all! That was the case for one Redditor's company just last year. To be fair, they are a new company, and they enacted their PTO policy in 2024. They decided to make the totally rational choice to take away six days of said Redditor's PTO because he had taken bereavement time off during Christmas. They claimed he was "over the allotted days" last year despite the fact that there were no days allotted! Suffice it to say that Reddit had a field day with this. 

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  • 01
    r/antiwork u/kittykateeeee • 16h Is this LEGAL??? This is a new company that established PTO this year 2024. How do you go backwards?
    via u/kittykateeeee
  • 02
    < 7:101 Messages PTO Inbox 600 09 PM ← 000 Good evening, Based on my calendar, you have 20 days of official PTO taken in 2023. This was over the allotted 14 days allowed last year based on your start date. At this time, you would owe us 6 days. You're total amount of PTO allowed at beginning of 2024 based on this is 8 days (14 at beginning of year - 6 days owed = 8 left). At this point, your total amount of PTO days left allowed is 8 If you have questions or concerns, please let me know. Please
    via u/kittykateeeee
  • 03
    Harrigan_Raen • 15h This is the -route: I would first reconcile the 20 days they claim you took as PTO and confirm the dates match with time off you took. I would request copies of pay stubs too, to confirm you see PTO used for those weeks. See if they are counting Holidays, Covid time, sick time, bereavement leave, etc as PTO time (Some places have different buckets of PTO). From there, I would site any source you have about PTO allotment for 2023 calendar year. Did you get something as a new h
    via u/Harrigan_Raen
  • 04
    I would fight every step of the way about this. And be the squeakiest of wheels. Make it cost them as close to 6 days of your pay, because thats what happening they are taking back 6 days you were paid for. I see from your other comment, how they (i assume supervisor/manager) encouraged you to take the paid time off. Try to get them to admit that in writing (if you dont have it). And then go above their head with basically "They told me to do this, I did it, now I'm being punished for it." appro
    via u/Harrigan_Raen
  • 05
    itisallgoodyouknow. 13h This guy PTOs 2.4k
    via u/itisallgoodyouknow
  • 06
    Harrigan_Raen • 5h . Almost 20 years in corporate America, I just know how to make my case and what pressure points to push and when to push them. 784
    via u/Harrigan_Raen
  • 07
    kittykateeeee OP. 16h We did not have a PTO set in 2023. I took off 5 days at the end of the year after my grandmother died. This person who sent the email encouraged me to take the time off. ... Reply 5.7k
    via u/kittykateeeee
  • 08
    Shojo Tombo 12h Ask them for a copy of the policy that was in effect in 2023. If they still insist on retroactively enforcing the policy, speak with a labor attorney and go to HR in that order. 5k
    via u/Shojo_Tombo
  • 09
    Fragrant_Example_918 10h Right answer. I kind of wonder how they try to claim that OP took 20 days last year when there was no PTO policy. Like, how do they even justify it? ... 1k
    via u/Fragrant_Example_918
  • 10
    NoReallyLetsBeFriend .7h Bereavement should NOT be counted as PTO! Plus like this person says how can you retroactively do that? Some bs MFS ... ✰ 503
    via u/NoReallyLetsBeFriend
  • 11
    kaijuumafoo1 ⚫ 14h I feel like everyone commenting is glossing over the fact that you literally didn't have the PTO they are claiming you took because PTO was not established until this year. They are blatantly lying by claiming days you took off were PTO when that was not even apart of your contract until now. This is wage/ compensation theft by retroactively claiming you took PTO days beyond what was allotted when nothing was even allotted and I'm guessing you didn't get paid for those days? T
    via u/kaijuumafoo1
  • 12
    creamsofpeach • 12h aspiring stay at home This should be a lot higher up. How could a PTO policy retroactively work against someone? What would they have done if OP left on the last day of 2023? OP please call them out on their . Respectfully. If they stand their ground, get a free consultation with an employment lawyer. Sometimes the proper verbiage and a vague threat of litigation is enough for them to back off. 289
    via u/creamsofpeach
  • 13
    Edser • 16h Check what they offer in bereavement and go that route to justify the days off last year. Also, have them point out in writing where the 14 days was last year for your records, so you know for the future. Don't make their life easy, and you might end up with them dropping all of it, or you filing with your local labor board. ... Reply 257
    via u/Edser
  • 14
    gingertrees 14h I had this happen to me. My contract house unwisely went to an "unlimited " model that they then had to shitcan <1 yr later when their clients were like "your workers aren't billing enough hrs" so then they did this whole "unlimited doesn't mean unlimited" thing, retconned and assigned us seemingly random limits. I got told i had like 4 days left for the year in spring. Another wkr was told he'd be immediately terminated if he took ANY time for the rest of the year. It sucked, bu
    via u/gingertrees
  • 15
    self_hell_guru • 11h This is a 2023 wage overpayment issue, which they have to prove beyond a doubt before requiring you to pay it back. Make them handle it as such and then require them to provide correct tax documents on top of the proof that you were overpaid. I'm guessing they can't provide that proof if you are correct in there being no such policy shown to you stating you only get 14 days. Use their policy against them also, it clearly states now you get 14 days of PTO each separate year,
    via u/self_hell_guru
  • 16
    CautiousHashtag • 14h This is a new company Not going to be around too long treating and talking to their employees like that. Reply 28
    via u/CautiousHashtag
  • 17
    starshiprarity • 15h PTO regulations depend on jurisdiction. If you're in a place that has no paid time off laws, and there are no standing agreements, your employer can create any terms they wish. They will not be able to collect on PTO wages from before the policy change but they can limit future benefits based on past activity Reply 64
    via u/starshiprarity
  • 18
    DrPikachu-PhD. 8h Everyone else's advice is really good. I'd probably just politely push back/ask for clarification, and then if they stuck to their guns say "Sorry but no, there was no PTO policy in 2023 so you can't retroactively punish me for time off before the new policy was instituted. I will be taking my full 14 days this year. If you have a problem you can fire me but we'll cross that wrongful-termination bridge when we come to it." ... Reply 18
    via u/DrPikachu-PhD

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antiwork job work time off PTO Reddit paid time off salary vacations toxic-workplace email toxic-boss workplace reddit thread company money vacation
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